Northern Tracks Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: houlio on October 27, 2008, 09:44:02 pm
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I thought we should start a new topic where everyone could combine their knowledge to help identify bombardiers. This would be to help to correctly identify the units by features.
For example:
- In which year did they start making the skis interchangeable for a wheel package?
- Was it just the wooden models before a certain year that had 5 port windows per side?
- Did any of the wooden models have an escape hatch?
- Changes to the instrumentation - Chrysler Motor w/ ford gauges?
- What year was the first metal body unit produced?
- Changes in steering mechanism?
- What year was the first wide gauge produced?
We could also help clarify model numbers such as what was the difference between a B12-C & B12-CS
B-12 C B-12 CS
Chrysler T-112, 85 HP Chrysler T-120, 100 HP (the special is for engine) Engine
Center of wheels 38" Center of wheels 41" Width
Width 13" 1/4 Width 17" 1/2 Tracks
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The vehicle code number B-12CS represents the following:
B = Bombardier
12 = 12 passengers (capacity of the vehicle)
C = powered by a Chrysler motor
S = the model is special
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We need both questions and answers from the people who have spent countless hours with these units. If there is enough valuable info added to this post it could be formatted different for all the members to use.
In the mean time .... Keep the slush in your mug and not in your tracks!
Take Care - Houlio
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Sounds great Houlio! I guess that would include the c18 too. Out of couriousity, is the c18 the same length as the b12 from the dash board to the rear bumper ? Can you change the old style steering like on the b12 to the newer style like Swamp Dwags.
Questions like that. I think it's great for people that have recently bought a machine. Like 3 friends of mine did a little while ago.
I'm having a hard time to get them to sign up.
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This could be for any model OT - much like identifying a vehicle. When you look at two trucks you know what year they are by certain features: Tail lights, head lights, bigger motor, etc whatever.
The end result would be a chart of things to look for by year. Might help to find parts, or even if someone is trying to identify a unit that is for sale.
Would someone be able to answer some of the questions I asked in the original post?
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I believe that the first metal machine was made in 1951. I'm not 100% on that though. Our 52' is metal.
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My 1951 machine is made with wood. I believe that 1951 was the last of the wooden ones and the metal ones began in 1952.
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Thanks kmp, I wasn't even aware that they made a C15 or C17. What do they have for motors in them?
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QUOTE FROM MAGAZINE ::
McLean's friends are proud of his achievements and give him a hand. "Some of us have helped with some parts, like the mechanical work, wiring and installing glass. But he does the woodwork himself and the finishing. They're every bit as good as when they came off the factory line in Quebec. In fact, they're probably better, because he has access to better finishes than they probably had then," says friend Bob Huck.
These machines were produced by the L'Auto-Neige Bombardier Limitée in Valcourt, Que., from 1937 to 1958. The wooden ones McLean restores date from the late 1940s and can carry up to 10 people comfortably inside a warm, heated cabin. Later models were made out of metal.
Folks, the above wording is from the woodworking mag that did the story on Cameron Mclean. It says these machines were made from 1937 to 1958. Was the 1937 built from wood ? I thought the last wooden body was built in 1951.
It says Cam restored the ones from the late 40's. Can anyone add to this ??? I know the bombardiers were built up to 1969.
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What is the difference between these two tags.
Gror's machine Houlio's machine
model # b 12cs b 12cs
chassis # ob 3046 9a 2328
order # 12433 07056
build date 11 12 50 27 10 49
Gror has a cargo door on his & Houlio don't. Is that the reason for different chassis #. Are the chassis different ??
Everything else checks out OK. I don't know if I missed anything.
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Houlio in the section " what's the difference" reply # 4, you said the "R" stood for the skis being interchangeable with the wheels. I know you said you were not 100% sure, but my friend has a C18 & has wheels on it. Shouldn't that machine be called a C18 R. I'm just curious my friend.
Maybe some of our members can help us out.
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Her's another quote from Bombardiers biography.
" The C18 (Chrysler, 18 passenger) was an expanded version of the B12 developed in 1945 for school transportantion. The name B12 CS means "Bombardier 12 Passengers Chrysler Special". "
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A bit more info.
"At one time, all of the vehicles sold by L'Auto-Neige Bombardier Limitee had interchangable sets of wheels and runners to allow travel on soft or rough terrains. This was the case with the snowbus-type vehicles such as the B12 and C16 which, thus modified, became known as the R12 and the R18. The R series has all-steel bodies. However, sales never were spectacular. The R series remained in production until 1979. They were the last large snowmobiles produced by the bombardier plant for mass transpotantion. Their lack of sucess on the market convinced Armand that the days of the large snowmobiles were over."
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Grfishmaker can you tell me what is different between the C18 & the R18 ?? When did the "R" series start?? Doesn't Swamp Dawg's "52" has interchangeable wheels & runners. In 1957, the c18 "narrow" is interchangeable.
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I just recently found a contact that was able to help me with the date codes on the tires we have on our unit.
Goodyear Date Code
371Y225N = manufactured the 22nd week of 1945
339Z535N = manufactured the 53rd week of 1945
I can hear it already OT - how did I get the 53rd week of 1945 when there are only 52 weeks in a year. Well ..... The tires were produced and dated with the week starting on Sunday, but because December 31st 1944 was a Sunday (new shift) they counted it as the 1st Sunday of 1945 - making December 30th, 1945 the 53rd week of the year.
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Trying to attach some specs on 12 passenger & 15 passenger units from a brochure I have from the early 1950's. Files are a bit too large, will try one more thing but may need to send them to Swamp Dawg for help.
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http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mudflinger150/Houlio/15passenger.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mudflinger150/Houlio/12pass.jpg
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Thanks for helping me post the info Swamp Dawg.
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Posting this from an email I received from Bombardier. I will see if he has the burgundy color code
Re: Blue Paint
From: (b12bouchard@yahoo.ca)
Sent: December 15, 2008 3:31:16 PM
To: claude stratton (popsshed@hotmail.com)
hi Claude actually there were many different colours depending what company ordered a machine, bell Canada,army,RCMP,and so on,but strait from the factory was blue and some burgundy dark tint,have your friend look inside the doors for over spray,places that were not disturbed over the years,blue is called midnight-blue ,from limco paint which can be found in many auto parts store,stock # is 85003 midnight blue limco 3,the recipe is ,LB105 FLOW CONTROL 22.9,LB201 IRON BLUE 146.4,LB401 LAMP BLACK 74.7,LB608 RED VIOLET 38.1,LB900 BRIGHT WHITE 10.9, AND LMC3 URETHANE MIXING 134.5 THIS IS FOR ONE GALLON. HOPE THIS HELP YOU OUT LATER CHARLES...--- On Sun, 12/14/08, Claude stratton <popsshed@hotmail.com> wrote:
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Good evening everyone. I have an easy question(I hope). I picked up a snowbug put the ID plate was not replaced when they painted it. Some specs are as follows:
- Narrow Gauge.
- Length app. 17' 3 " not including front bumper.
- Lights set to the front of machine.
- 4 round windows/side.
- Motor 292 6 cyl. I was told it was a Chrysler motor but Ford made a 300, but that was in the 80's for trucks.
- Trany is 3 on tree long shaft.
It was used for only a few hours each year for last 6 or so years so everything is slightly gummed up. I want to buy new parts but want to narrow down the year best as possible. My estimation is a 52. Any other info required? Thank You!
DR.R
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Is there any way to tell the vintage of a machine from the hatch location? Our 52 has it in the back, but I see others that have it in the front.
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Many of the early metals didn't have hatches unless they were ordered . Don't think any of the woodies had them. Those that did were up front over the seats and were cut into the first roof support. Those installed after by owners were usually installed behind the roof support so they are a foot back or so. That is where I put mine in my early 1953. I like it better because you can have someone standing in the hatch without interfering with the driver or passernger. It's a great view from there and plenty of fresh air.
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GMC had a 292 truck engine. If it is a 1952 it should have wood on the inside of the doors, no shock absorbers and likely aluminum or cast iron sprockets. Mind you, many updates can be installed over 60 years but there still should be some tell tale signs somewhere on the machine i.e if it does have shocks and the towers appear to be fabricated after market, you know it is a 1952.
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DR.R If it were a 1952 it would have a wooden body with five windows and a 251 Chrysler engine. Roof hatches were an option on the 52 woodies according to my manual Clarence
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DR.R Disregard my previous post... the info I posted was for a 1951. Sorry
Clarence
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Thanks guys. This just makes my head spin. I checked the sprocket on the front of the track and it is a hard plastic. I also found out there are shocks, with a mark of T-7HC Bombadier on it, plus numerous others. I did notice that there was the faint marks of a grinder between the ski attachment and the floorboard of the bug on the frame. This could be evidence of an old system that was updated to shocks,but the holes in the body where the shock goes thru are either factory or an excellent after market job. Wood on inside of door and on inside of roof, if that means anything. After crawling all around I found out that the previous paint job is was Yellow. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.
DR.R
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Swamp Dawg, I noticed in reply # 16 that you posted for Houlio, this info is for the metal gauge machine. I assume it is same for all machines, metal or wood, with regard to width, motor, height, tracks, chassis width, (narrow & wide) & skis.
I have read that the "woody" is approximately 1,900 lbs. My question to anyone, is what is the overall length of the "woody". I would think it has the same radius on the frame rails, but the length would be shorter on account of the blunt nose. Also I would like to know what that radius is. I also would like to know the measurements & angles of the front seat frame that is "original" to the "woody" as I plan to duplicate a couple.
Thanks from The Old Trucker
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hear is some info that some of you may or may not know, the steal snow moble is made so that you can atach weals on it but the a snow moble is not realy built for riding on rodes this desine was put there for caring suplies around saw mill's and shiping yards in winter they wernt intended for long trips acros roads this would where the tracks down far to quick to prove any use. Also the steal snow moble has a coil spring but a wooden snow moble has a saspended bogy spring.
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A bit more info.
"At one time, all of the vehicles sold by L'Auto-Neige Bombardier Limitee had interchangable sets of wheels and runners to allow travel on soft or rough terrains. This was the case with the snowbus-type vehicles such as the B12 and C16 which, thus modified, became known as the R12 and the R18. The R series has all-steel bodies. However, sales never were spectacular. The R series remained in production until 1979. They were the last large snowmobiles produced by the bombardier plant for mass transpotantion. Their lack of sucess on the market convinced Armand that the days of the large snowmobiles were over."
Grfishmaker are you saying that the skis on the b12 are interchangeable to wheels ?? Was there a special bracket made to do this change over ??
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Can anyone give me a rough idea of the year of this bomber ? I have it dated back to 1947. First year for rubber on the pedals.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0329.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0328.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0334.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0327.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0327.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0321.jpg
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0319.jpg
Looks like metal on the back ends behind the tracks in the pic below. I thought it was framed with angle & covered with plywood.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/theoldtrucker/DSCF0318.jpg
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Maybe their all babies !!!! 11 per side plus 4 across the back !!! AAHHH Haaaa. Only joking kpm. Only joking my friend.
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Ah yes....the old R26...brings back the memories. The R26 was a special built bombardier in 1955 for the missionarys in New Guinia to hold 26 pigmys. The idea never lasted long as they soon realized that the lack of snow caused too much wear on the machines and the maintanance was eating up the church's budget. They quickly reverted back to the donkey-on-a-rope method of transportation and production of the B26 was ceased. Apparently it was the shortest production of any bombardier model that ever came out of Valcourt. (Isn't Canadian history interesting? I bet not too many people know this.)
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well,not to sound like a know it all..I was aware that it had been used for the missionary postion once or twice,thus bringing up the retail value!!!....that said being kind hearted,I will not be seeking more than fair market price for this rare machine...
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hmm grfishmaker,i've now come across an r 25 model...it's a wide gauge also...I believe this model was used to harvest ice worms,in the sub artic..
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Oldsledz, you said that your bomber doesn't have the dimmer switch, right ? If you look at Houlios machine you'll see there is a dimmer switch on his, same location as mine. His is a 1949. Yours is a 48. Maybe mine is a 1949. The first year for dimmer switches !! I will ask Charles what he thinks of it.
Averyman does your 51 bomber have a dimmer switch on it ?? Cranman, can you add some light on this question ??
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You may be right. I was at the museum in Valcourt this past wednesday and i did not pay attention to the one there, but i think is was a 48 so it probably was not on it.
Met Ernest Bombardier, he is J. Armand's first cousin. He worked in the little garage in the very late 30's and he was i guess you would call him the "quality control" guy in the factory. He made sure that the machines were done correctly and also any options were in place before they went out the door. He also stamped the brass tags for those machines. He is 92 years old and is still very interested in the big machines. Very interesting to hear his stories.
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OT.. Yes my '51 has a dimmer switch. The origional headlight system is pretty dim to begin with,I can't imagine why they thought it necessary to dim them further.... maybe government regulations ?? Options were mentioned in a previous reply, someday I'll get around to posting a list of all the available options in 1951... there were quite a few...